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Israel: Also a Terror Victim (messages 1-12)  
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zion613  07:38pm Mar 7, 2002 EST 1 of 12
The war on terror. Sounds nice. What's not nice, though, is the world's double standard toward Israel. Arafat and his ilk ARE TERRORISTS. They long to "push Israel into the sea." How long can we let this go on? It's as if the world is saying that Arabs have the right to kill Jews who are defending themselves against Arabs who are trying to kill them. Madness!

SSJ4Goku45063  10:50pm Mar 7, 2002 EST 2 of 12
This is a very sensitive issue...but you have to research WHY they want to "push Israel into the sea." True, they might be psychopaths and just want to get rid of Israelies, but they might also have a reason for it. I'm not saying that I am justifying what they are doing, but Israel is not INNOCENT at all. Look at what they are doing. Palestinian bomb a party, in return, Israelies exterminate a whole city. And these witht the help and "white blankets" that the US is providing for them. The US provides weapons for the Israelies, and justifies what they do. Once again, this is a very sensitive issue, and I don't want to offend anyone.

Mehdi


Locke  11:27pm Mar 7, 2002 EST 3 of 12
Hey all, I am very glad someone started this thread. I wanted to ask what ya' all think of the peace plan the Saudi's have offered Isreal. Ya' all think it is fair / unfair?

I personally think that Sharon is being stupid in ignoring it thus far. All he has done to stop violence is be more violent. I think a peace plan is in order for a change of pace.

...punch and pie


Locke  10:30am Mar 8, 2002 EST 4 of 12
For more information about the Isreali - Palestinian violence please read the article below:

An Arab - American's view of peace


...punch and pie


SSJ4Goku45063  11:25am Mar 8, 2002 EST 5 of 12
I agree with Locke...as he said, the Government of Isreal has only responded to violnce with more violence, and theirs is more alplified. And the US is still supporting them, primarily because of the influnces of friends or relatives of Israelies, here in the US. In my opinion, the peace plan hasn't progressed at all. Whenever there appears to a sight of peace, some dubass decides to blow himself up and ruins the whole thing, thereby starting the whole thing over and over again.

Mehdi


BrooklynGirl  10:46pm Mar 8, 2002 EST 6 of 12
I have mixed feelings about Israel...these people have been fighting for centuries, so I don't see any US or other country's involvement changing that any time soon. The US is better off not picking sides and letting Sharon and Arafat work it out. Our government has played games with both, using each whenever they will help America. It's only now with the Bush administration that our government has taken a dangerous position of choosing a side.
The best thing for Israel is for them to reach some kind of agreement where they'll spend more time calling out those of their own who do dirt, than calling out those on the other side. By always blaming each other and not seeing what their own sides are doing, they'll never come to peace.

zion613  09:52pm Mar 11, 2002 EST 7 of 12
If anyone thinks the Arabs truly want peace, please do me a favor and read up on your history. Violence is the only language they understand - like a kid throwing a tantrum, the more you give in, the more likely they are to use the same method next time. This has been the case from 1948 until today. The Arabs can show they want peace by stopping entirely to target Israeli civillians - the Israelis won't kill without reason.

BrooklynGirl  11:38pm Mar 11, 2002 EST 8 of 12
Arabs can't be blamed for the fighting with Israelis, that violence falls on both of sides. Palestinians attack Israelis just as quick they are attacked by Israelis. Also, there's a difference in level of attacks...the PLO has psycho suicide bombers and Sharon uses military foce to basically confine Arafat to his housing.
I personally feel that these two leaders are not totally to blame. Sure they should be able to control those in their country, but there are radicals on both sides that can't be stopped and won't stop. They are the people that continue to make this situation worse.
By the way, Arabs aren't going to stop attacking until Israelis stop attacking and vice versa.

zion613  08:57pm Mar 12, 2002 EST 9 of 12
I know this is long, but it is a very interesting and informative read.
United States Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma), delivered this speech on
the Senate floor:
PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST -- (Senate - March 04, 2002)
[Page: S1427]

Mr. President, I was interested the other day when I heard that the de
facto ruler, Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Abdullah, made a statement which
was received by many in this country as if it were a statement of fact,
as if it were something new, a concept for peace in the Middle East that
no one had ever heard of before. I was kind of shocked that it was so
well received by many people who had been down this road before.

I suggest to you that what Crown Prince Abdullah talked about a few days
ago was not new at all. He talked about the fact that under the Abdullah
plan, Arabs would normalize relations with Israel in exchange for the
Jewish state surrendering the territory it received after the 1976
Six-Day War as if that were something new. He went on to talk about other
land that had been acquired and had been taken by Israel.

I remember so well on December 4 when we covered all of this and the fact
that there isn't anything new about the prospect of giving up land that
is rightfully Israel's land in order to have peace. When it gets right
down to it, the land doesn't make that much difference because Yasser
Arafat and others don't recognize Israel's right to any of the land. They
do not recognize Israel's right to exist. I will discuss seven reasons,
which I mentioned once before, why Israel is entitled to the land they
have and that it should not be a part of the peace process. If this is
something that Israel wants to do, it is their business to do it. But
anyone who has tried to put the pressure on Israel to do this is wrong.
We are going to be hit by skeptics who are going to say we will be
attacked because of our support for Israel, and if we get out of the
Middle East--that is us--all the problems will go away. That is just not
true. If we withdraw, all of these problems will again come to our door.
I have some observations to make about that. But I would like to
reemphasize once again the seven reasons that Israel has the right to
their land.

1. The first reason is that Israel has the right to the land because of
all of the archeological evidence. That is reason, No. 1. All the
archeological evidence supports it. Every time there is a dig in Israel,
it does nothing but support the fact that Israelis have had a presence
there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins,
the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that
are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been
present in that land for 3,000 years.
It predates any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The
ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct.
They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Israelis have.
Even the Egyptians of today are not racial Egyptians of 2,000, 3,000
years ago. They are primarily an Arab people. The land is called Egypt,
but they are not the same racial and ethnic stock as the old Egyptians of
the ancient world. The first Israelis are in fact descended from the
original Israelites. The first proof, then, is the archeology.

2. The second proof of Israel's right to the land is the historic right.
History supports it totally and completely. We know there has been an
Israel up until the time of the Roman Empire. The Romans conquered the
land. Israel had no homeland, although Jews were allowed to live there.
They were driven from the land in two dispersions: One was in 70 A,.D.
and the other was in 135 A.D. But there was always a Jewish presence in
the land.
The Turks, who took over about 700 years ago and ruled the land up until
about World War I, had control. Then the land was conquered by the
British. The Turks entered World War I on the side of Germany. The
British knew they had to do something to punish Turkey, and also to break
up that empire that was going to be a part of the whole effort of Germany
in World War I. So the British sent troops against the Turks in the Holy
Land.
One of the generals who was leading the British armies was a man named
Allenby. Allenby was a Bible-believing Christian. He carried a Bible with
him everywhere he went and he knew the significance of Jerusalem.

The night before the attack against Jerusalem to drive out the Turks,
Allenby prayed that God would allow him to capture the city without doing
damage to the holy places.
That day, Allenby sent World War I biplanes over the city of Jerusalem to
do a reconnaissance mission. You have to understand that the Turks had at
that time never seen an airplane. So there they were, flying around. They
looked in the sky and saw these fascinating inventions and did not know
what they were, and they were terrified by them.
Then they were told they were going to be opposed by a man named Allenby
the next day, which means, in their language, ``man sent from God'' or
``prophet from God.'' They dared not fight against a prophet from God, so
the next morning, when Allenby went to take Jerusalem, he went in and
captured it without firing a single shot.

The British Government was grateful to Jewish people around the world,
particularly to one Jewish chemist who helped them manufacture niter.
Niter is an ingredient that was used in nitroglycerin which was sent over
from the New World. But they did not have a way of getting it to England.
The German U-boats were shooting on the boats, so most of the niter they
were trying to import to make nitroglycerin was at the bottom of the
ocean. But a man named Weitzman, a Jewish chemist, discovered a way to
make it from materials that existed in England. As a result, they were
able to continue that supply.
The British at that time said they were going to give the Jewish people a
homeland. That is all a part of history. It is all written down in
history. They were gratified that the Jewish people, the bankers, came
through and helped finance the war.

The homeland that Britain said it would set aside consisted of all of
what is now Israel and all of what was then the nation of Jordan--the
whole thing. That was what Britain promised to give the Jews in 1917.

In the beginning, there was some Arab support for this action. There was
not a huge Arab population in the land at that time, and there is a
reason for that. The land was not able to sustain a large population of
people. It just did not have the development it needed to handle those
people, and the land was not really wanted by anybody. Nobody really
wanted this land. It was considered to be worthless land.

I want the Presiding Officer to hear what Mark Twain said. And, of
course, you may have read ``Huckleberry Finn'' and ``Tom Sawyer.'' Mark
Twain--Samuel Clemens--took a tour of Palestine in 1867. This is how he
described that land. We are talking about Israel now. He said: A desolate
country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A
silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human being on the whole route.
There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the
cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the
country.

Where was this great Palestinian nation? It did not exist. It was not
there. Palestinians were not there. Palestine was a region named by the
Romans, but at that time it was under the control of Turkey, and there
was no large mass of people there because the land would not support
them.

This is the report that the Palestinian Royal Commission, created by the
British, made. It quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal
plain along the Mediterranean Sea in 1913. This is the Palestinian Royal
Commission. They said: The road leading from Gaza to the north


zion613  09:00pm Mar 12, 2002 EST 10 of 12
was only a
summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange
groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the
Yavnev village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part
toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few
and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.

That was 1913.
The French author Voltaire described Palestine as ``a hopeless, dreary
place.'' In short, under the Turks the land suffered from neglect and low
population. That is a historic fact. The nation became populated by both
Jews and Arabs because the land came to prosper when Jews came back and
began to reclaim it. Historically, they began to reclaim it. If there had
never been any archaeological evidence to support the rights of the
Israelis to the territory, it is also important to recognize that other
nations in the area have no longstanding claim to the country either.

Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until
1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the
borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and Kuwait in 1961. Any of
these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have
to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well. They did not exist
as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks.
Historically, Israel gained its independence in 1948.

3. The third reason that land belongs to Israel is the practical value of
the Israelis being there. Israel today is a modern marvel of agriculture.
Israel is able to bring more food out of a desert environment than any
other country in the world. The Arab nations ought to make Israel their
friend and import technology from Israel that would allow all the Middle
East, not just Israel, to become an exporter of food. Israel has
unarguable success in its agriculture.

4. The fourth reason I believe Israel has the right to the land is on the
grounds of humanitarian concern. You see, there were 6 million Jews
slaughtered in Europe in World War II. The persecution against the Jews
had been very strong in Russia since the advent of communism. It was
against them even before then under the Czars.
These people have a right to their homeland. If we are not going to allow
them a homeland in the Middle East, then where? What other nation on
Earth is going to cede territory, is going to give up land?

They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel would
fit into my home State of Oklahoma seven times. It would fit into the
Presiding Officer's State of Georgia seven times. They are not asking for
a great deal. The whole nation of Israel is very small. It is a nation
that, up until the time that claims started coming in, was not desired by
anybody.

5. The fifth reason Israel ought to have their land is that she is a
strategic ally of the United States. Whether we realize it or not, Israel
is a detriment, an impediment, to certain groups hostile to democracies
and hostile to what we believe in, hostile to that which makes us the
greatest nation in the history of the world. They have kept them from
taking complete control of the Middle East. If it were not for Israel,
they would overrun the region. They are our strategic ally. It is good to
know we have a friend in the Middle East on whom we can count. They vote
with us in the United Nations more than England, more than Canada, more
than France, more than Germany--more than any other country in the world.

6. The sixth reason is that Israel is a roadblock to terrorism. The war
we are now facing is not against a sovereign nation; it is against a
group of terrorists who are very fluid, moving from one country to
another. They are almost invisible. That is whom we are fighting against
today. We need every ally we can get. If we do not stop terrorism in the
Middle East, it will be on our shores. We have said this again and again
and again, and it is true. One of the reasons I believe the spiritual
door was opened for an attack against the United States of America is
that the policy of our Government has been to ask the Israelis, and
demand it with pressure, not to retaliate in a significant way against
the terrorist strikes that have been launched against them.

Since its independence in 1948, Israel has fought four wars: The war in
1948 and 1949--that was the war for independence--the war in 1956, the
Sinai campaign; the Six-Day War in 1967; and in 1973, the Yom Kippur War,
the holiest day of the year, and that was with Egypt and Syria. You have
to understand that in all four cases, Israel was attacked. They were not
the aggressor. Some people may argue that this was not true because they
went in first in 1956, but they knew at that time that Egypt was building
a huge military to become the aggressor. Israel, in fact, was not the
aggressor and has not been the aggressor in any of the four wars. Also,
they won all four wars against impossible odds. They are great warriors.
They consider a level playing field being outnumbered 2 to 1. There were
39 Scud missiles that landed on Israeli soil during the gulf war. Our
President asked Israel not to respond. In order to have the Arab nations
on board, we asked Israel not to participate in the war. They showed
tremendous restraint and did not. Now we have asked them to stand back
and not do anything over these last several attacks. We have criticized
them. We have criticized them in our media. Local people in television
and radio often criticize Israel, not knowing the true facts. We need to
be informed.

I was so thrilled when I heard a reporter pose a question to our
Secretary of State, Colin Powell. He said: Mr. Powell, the United States
has advocated a policy of restraint in the Middle East. We have
discouraged Israel from retaliation again and again and again because
we've said it leads to continued escalation -- that it escalates the
violence. Are we going to follow that preaching ourselves?

Mr. Powell indicated we would strike back. In other words, we can tell
Israel not to do it, but when it hits us, we are going to do something.
But all that changed in December when the Israelis went into the Gaza
with gunships and into the West Bank with F-16s. With the exception of
last May, the Israelis had not used F-16s since the 1967 6-Day War. And I
am so proud of them because we have to stop terrorism. It is not going to
go away. If Israel were driven into the sea tomorrow, if every Jew in the
Middle East were killed, terrorism would not end. You know that in your
heart. Terrorism would continue.
It is not just a matter of Israel in the Middle East. It is the heart of
the very people who are perpetrating this stuff. Should they be
successful in overrunning Israel--which they won't be--but should they
be, it would not be enough. They will never be satisfied.

7. No. 7, I believe very strongly that we ought to support Israel; that
it has a right to the land. This is the most important reason: Because
God said so. As I said a minute ago, look it up in the book of Genesis.
It is right up there on the desk.
In Genesis 13:14-17, the Bible says: The Lord said to Abram, ``Lift up
now your eyes, and look from the place where you are northward, and
southward, and eastward and westward: for all the land which you see, to
you will I give it, and to your seed forever. ..... Arise, walk through
the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it
to thee.'' That is God talking. The Bible says that Abram removed his
tent and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and
built there an altar before the Lord. Hebron is in the West Bank. It is
at this place where God appeared to Abram and said, ``I am giving you
this land,''--the West Bank. This is not a political battle at all. It is
a contest over whether or not t


zion613  09:02pm Mar 12, 2002 EST 11 of 12
the word of God is true.

Conclusion: The seven reasons, I am convinced, clearly establish that
Israel has a right to the land. Eight years ago on the lawn of the White
House, Yitzhak Rabin shook hands with PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. It was
a historic occasion. It was a tragic occasion. At that time, the official
policy of the Government of Israel began to be, "Let us appease the
terrorists. Let us begin to trade the land for peace." This process
continued unabated up until last year. Here in our own Nation, at Camp
David, in the summer of 2000, then Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak
offered the most generous concessions to Yasser Arafat that had ever been
laid on the table. He offered him more than 90 percent of all the West
Bank territory, sovereign control of it. There were some parts he did not
want to offer, but in exchange for that he said he would give up land in
Israel proper that the PLO had not even asked for. And he also did the
unthinkable. He even spoke of dividing Jerusalem and allowing the
Palestinians to have their capital there in the East. Yasser Arafat
stormed out of the meeting. Why did he storm out of the meeting?
Everything he had said he wanted was offered there. It was put into his
hands. Why did he storm out of the meeting? A couple of months later,
there began to be riots, terrorism. The riots began when now Prime
Minister Ariel Sharon went to the Temple Mount. And this was used as the
thing that lit the fire and that caused the explosion. Did you know that
Sharon did not go unannounced and that he contacted the Islamic
authorities before he went and secured their permission and had
permission to be there? It was no surprise.

The response was very carefully calculated. They knew the world would not
pay attention to the details. They would portray this in the Arab world
as an attack upon the holy mosque. They would portray it as an attack
upon that mosque and use it as an excuse to riot. Over the last 8 years,
during this time of the peace process, where the Israeli public has
pressured its leaders to give up land for peace because they are tired of
fighting, there has been increased terror.
In fact, it has been greater in the last 8 years than any other time in
Israel's history. Showing restraint and giving in has not produced any
kind of peace. It is so much so that today the leftist peace movement in
Israel does not exist because the people feel they were deceived.
They did offer a hand of peace, and it was not taken. That is why the
politics of Israel have changed drastically over the past 12 months. The
Israelis have come to see that, "No matter what we do, these people do
not want to deal with us. ..... They want to destroy us." That is why
even yet today the stationery of the PLO still has upon it the map of the
entire state of Israel, not just the tiny little part they call the West
Bank that they want. They want it all.
We have to get out of this mindset that somehow you can buy peace in the
Middle East by giving little plots of land. It has not worked before when
it has been offered.

These seven reasons show why Israel is entitled to that land.

I yield the floor.


zion613  09:02pm Mar 12, 2002 EST 12 of 12
I've posted THE TRUTH on this board. It begins about 3 messages ago. It is worth your time to read.

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